[links-list] Re: Graphical Links with extra features

aludal aludal at softhome.net
Sat Nov 30 21:59:03 PST 2002


Privet:

> > I use Privoxy with Links (and everything else). On Lenta.ru, a default
> > banner/image blocking set of options blocks 99 % of advertising (these
> > images are replaced by 1 bit 1x1 stretched pixel checkboard pattern,
> > which starts boring me, will probably replace it with my Links logo
> > (="system font") On some other commercial sites Privoxy blocks even
> > "legal" pictures if there's some obscure redirection pattern associated
> > to them. So, I'm not so sure how selective your blocking feature might be
> > compared to a local "smart" proxy server.
>
> It was easier for me to implement it into links code - when I coded this
> part I had a very slow machine, and a lot of unnecessary DNS calls and
> proxy connections were critical ;-)
As I see it, there's a silent and very religious war of two approaches raging 
here: one holds it the core code must never be bloated, and extra features 
must be modular/third party additions. The other one demands that any 
addition of a feature must go to the monolithic executable, but render it 
tighter, shorter, more lightweight. They are both right and correct within 
their respective reference systems, but it's where all the project's 
branching stems. Be prepared that your hack will continue as a branch of your 
own. Add more of nice features, at least into your TODO plans, and you could 
suck in more followers, bugfixers/coders.

> > It's kinda you have all the time you might need to port it. That is,
> > before anyone else did it, as people around Links seem to be very much
> > concerned about this "featurette" (In my opinion, a better support of
> > javascript, of plugins/helper applications/mime types, plus some basic
> > CSS compliance would be of much greater importance for Links.)
>
> Has anyone even tried to add anything from your list to links? As I see
> now all the development is inside Elinks stream...
Nope. All I was proposing seemed to look like unnecessary codebloats for 
whoever could easily code these, or just too complex to implement to the rest 
of a Links crowd. As long as ELinks keeps at the arm length from including 
graphics support, I'm not interested in whatever of my proposals they might 
implement there.

> > didn't work for me yet.... Or did I do something wrong? There's TWO "File
> > extensions" (Rasshireniya failov) options though in my Setup menu, I
> > wonder where those come from?
>
> It was just a cloned line 2029 in menu.c...
sooo... I presume you fixed that one already, right?

> > these work great, especially Stop ;-). Still, need to untie them from
> > ugly symbols like "<-" AND Latin letters like R B S (these might be
> > shortcuts, that's OK, but imagine I'm an Arab who doesn't like this
> > infidels' crap on my inshallah localized guerilla browser? What does it
> > take for you to re-code these to point on just PNG images of these very
> > symbols (or any symbols, as I press my case with specially cut arrows,
> > stop- and reload- and home-signs)?
>
> It's possible if you implement your icons as a symbols inside, for
> example, as 000?.png in system/font. Then you can simply replace
> current symbols in draw_title() function (view_gr.c) with it.
I did exactly that, already! All I'm asking now is tell me where is that 
re-written (by you) line in the code which now invokes "003d.png, 002c.png" 
instead of current "<-", for example. Also show me the lines where you could 
invoke 00@@.png, 00$$.png, 00??.png (numbers below hex 20 are meant) instead 
of your "R B S"? Naturally, if you decide to add more hooks for Back/Forward 
histories, Home, Forward, I'd need corresponding pointers for these, too.

> > Anyway, that your/Lua's "gg:<your-query>" in an address field which, in
> > turn, you don't see in the first place and need to invoke every time is
> > for me like in an old Russian saying: "Гланды через задницу рвать": too
> > much hassle. Besides, what's wrong with keeping type-in forms for URL
> > address (and later, maybe, for Googlesearch) available all the time? Like
> > about 2 weeks ago I suggested to render every Web page as a lower left
> > frame in Links, with a sidebar right frame consisting of clickable
> > bookmarks list (option: Google search window; Bugzilla; whatever), and
> > top frame having these
> > URL/Googlesearch forms visible and even with default focus (blinking
> > cursor) in URL address form, pseudo-button [Go!], Menu headers (visible
> > all the time....), plus these minimal, poorman's navigational controls.
> > What's wrong with that? If you for some obscure reason need a more
> > castrated version (like no Forward arrow, no History drop-down lists, no
> > Home button, it's OK, just make it as setup menu options unchecked.
>
> It is very difficult to implement in current links - so-called
> 'bfu-technology' doesn't provide such possibilities, IMHO. And it is
> useless at least for me - the great advantage of links is what I don't
> worry about 'which of these fields are focused now?' Current LUA concept
> of prefixes is much more powerful and useful I think - you can use an
> infinite number of search engines with only one input field ;-)
I somehow am missing the point here: Links 100% supports frames, right? All is 
needed is to generate a layout with two-three additional and matching frames 
generated by the localhost, instead of a (remote) Web server. What kind of a 
dirty hack is this bfu-technology is if it doesn't allow elementary things 
even the simplest proxies and/or tiniest Web servers are capable of? Then, 
how about tricking that renderer into believing that it deals with lesser 
window size as target, than it is in reality? As far as I can judge, that 
mystical and dumb bfu-hack doesn't mind that there are two very foreign lines 
present in its realm (menu, your RBS thingie, and status line), what prevents 
to squeeze it more by adding three, four, five more lines? Or a left-handed 
column of bookmark list? IMHO, lack of focus in Links is a bug which turned 
out as a feature to you. I don't mind it stay that way.

> > On you "inverted" status line: I'd prefer variable (non-monowidth) font
> > there, and it'd better be bold, too. Talking about dl status bar meter:
> > Czech guys have that Shepherd network monitor, how about hacking it into
> > one more frame for Links, to show the downloading process in real time?
>
> Ok, variable font implemented. You can download it from the same url as
> before.
....add more candies for me, please, so it could be worthwhile to download one 
more ~5 MByte chunk "cherez vash emgeushnyy paduchiy router"

> > > > > - Some small but useful improvements - support for <small> and
> > > > > <big> tags,
> > > >
> > > > what are those doing, when supported?
> > >
> > > Changing font size, of course!
> >
> > uh.... maybe there were some problems with these, but I believe I never
> > stumbled upon them.
>
> They are in html-4 standard at least... And <small> is in use on one site
> I use - www.astronet.ru... Really, for this site I need to implement
> our home-made tag <tex> to incorporate TeX formulas into HTML. Maybe
> anybody know FAST way to render LaTeX from C code?..
Somebody from my Silicon Valley LUG tackled a similar problem like couple 
years ago, I don't know what was distilled out of it. Also, I could 
personally ask Don Knuth about that crappy behavior and awful mismatch 
between TeX and HTML, hehe.... (met him 2 years ago in San Jose on some 
obscure "Science & Spiritual Quest" seminar. Patriarch visits those and every 
other only once in two-three years, so I used the opportunity to earn my 
$2.56 by pointing at the error in "Chebyshev" spelling: must be "Chebyshov".
Old man just signed me my copies of TACP, that's and some small talk over 
several glasses of Napa Valley wine <--dryantso-vintso, was all). So, I 
presume you'd better use pdf.

> > Italics badly need to be better kerned! I don't know what did you use to
> > cut PNGs, suppose it was Gimp or the like, now every glyph needs to have
> > its right side ("tail") closely shaved off: some letters (like "p") have
> > extra 6 pixels we need to get rid of, some letters allow only 2 or 3
> > (like "g"), these must be retouched...  On the Century-Schoolbook I'd say
> > Schoolbook in general is a very sorrowful accident with mediocre
> > readabilty Links got caught into; me and Cliff are preparing Titus
> > Unicode and Cheltenham and Cyberbit CJK, then maybe Espy to replace this
> > disaster)
>
> I'm too lazy to do it by hands - all these fonts were generated by
> 'official' scripts form graphics/ directory. But if you have correct
> PNGs...
I'm considering to try and replace all italics with slanted romans. Imagine a 
more or less complete roman Unicode font: it's about 20 MB in ttf, and around 
15 MB when in tightest PNGs. Now you need to add the same 15 or even 18 MB (a 
bigger figure because of more diagonals with grey subpixelazations) of 
italics to that. Now let's try a guerilla way: you could have your 
pseudo-italics if you could slant your core romans at layout time. My farther 
and much wilder dream is about producing pseudo sans serifs out of 
short-serifed core romans in the same "dirty hack" manner.

> > there were some bugfixes since, not many, but the bugs were of very
> > annoying kind.
>
> I hope I backported all major changes from latest versions. Or I've missed
> anything?
like I said: bg color. Then, there were like two or maybe three very 
unadditive patches on that "Copy URL" by Ludvik, but I suppose you replaced 
them completely. ./gen script (or whatever else) is broken in pre7, but 
nobody cares. I compile my fonts in pre6, it works to adopt the resulting 
font_include.c in pre7. Also nobody cared miuch to include my latest Latin 
bolds and Cyrillic roman, Cyrillic mono retouches in pre7. There were some 
2-3 small bugfixes lately which now I don't care about, plus one big bugfix 
on http_auth. One more thing: there was a guy called Swen Neumann here who 
wrote a DirectFB driver for Links, but I somehow doubt you'd need his patch 
to incorporate in your hack-branch. Unless you happen to write a freetype2 
backend for Links without X.... That's all, IMHO.

> > LOL! Гиннесс Экстра Стаут есть зримая ВЕЩЧЬ супротив всяких "Ячменных
> > Коллапсов (Колосов)", это да.... As for Staropramen, I'd rather have
> > Pilsner Urquell (Plzenski Prazdroj).
>
> Нее, Экстра Стаут - отстой, вот Драфт, да в ирландском пабе - это вещь!..
> Как давно это было... В России такого не найдешь...
6 blockov ot menya there's an Irish pub called Katie Blum......mmmmm and 
mmmmm. Well, draft is good, too, they just both need to be on tap: "ne 
butyloshnoye, a s-pod-kranu". V chetyryokh blockakh -- British Trials pub, 
these guys and local anglophiles prefer Extra Stout on tap.

AU
---- Anybody tried to un-Mormon a Mormon? ----
								-- Mine
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