[links-list] Re: fonts fonts fonts .... why not draw them ?

aludal aludal at softhome.net
Thu Nov 14 17:29:38 PST 2002


В сообщении от 14 Ноябрь 2002 15:31 вы написали:
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 01:25:00PM -0800, aludal wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > > Dear links addicts,
> >
> > ...and you supposed to be clean of that dope, eh?
>
> LOL hehe no i am not clean on that ;)
heh... I've got finally hooked on that sick puppy (links -g) about two month 
ago. Cutting fonts for it, since.

> > > a different algorithm alltogether but the advantages of blocking is
> > > easily done using libz too.
> >
> > yeah, we all came to the conclusion already, that bz2 will squeeze out up
> > to 60 % of total redundant filesize, and it's great. Now think of
> > something not so sweet, but sour like ARM 20x-series processor for a PDA
> > which is I believe no better than Pentium 90 MHz for unzipping/font
> > rendering on the fly. It is these silly palmtops/tabletPC/mobile-phone
> > Links might have a good market share. With a theoretical possibility to
> > get 6-8 basic Unicode PNG sets in under 10 MB of (Flash) RAM of these
> > toys, there might be no big need in compressing-decompressing them.
>
> hmm... ARM 20x? you mean StrongARM at 200 Mhz? or do you mean ARM2 ? (if that
> little beasty is still avail... i doubt) ... There have been ARM1, ARM2,
> ARM3, ARM6, ARM 7 and StrongARM's available allthough there is also an
> ARM 8, ARM 9 and ARM 10 but those are pretty embedded normally... I've used
> ARM2-StrongARM but have no experience with ARM8+. The reason you say prolly
> like Pentium 90 is for ARM processors generally lack an FPU :( .... even
> intel's Xscale implementation dropped the FPU thats normally included in
> ARM10.
I meant *Strong*ARM 207, or something they use for Linux PDAs (like Sharp 
Zaurus, or whatever else). It's just my fingers refused to type "Strong" were 
"WeakARM" is quite proper name.

> > > I've also hearded some comments on `why not use freetype2 ?/ Xfonts /
> > > ...' ... personally i dont like freetype2 that much allthough the
> > > output i've seen is very reasonable to pretty good. The hard dependency
> > > on X is prolly not wanted for it might run on a non X system :-D
> >
> > I don't like freetype2 either, that's why I use so called Xft Hack
> > instead of it. As for (non-X) DirectFB driver for Links, it might contain
> > some (freetype2, or whatever) font rasterizer backend one day. Or might
> > not, as nobody seems to care. So far, we stick to our X.
> >
> :)
> :
> > Good! But try now to compete in footprints of both renderer and font(s)
> > with this toy called Font Fusion:
> >
> > http://www.bitstream.com/categories/developer/fontfusion/ffoverview.html
>
> OK ... lets calculate ... 35 + 2*16 -> 35+32 = 67 K; mine is about 86k
> without the PNG codec; and about 65 K without the RiscOS font renderer and
> the PNG codec. Note however that its not a fontrender per sang; its just
> one of its features. The kernel is 46 Kb and suports clipping, gradual
> fills etc etc. All measured on a `stripped' archive compiled for StrongARM.
...and how fast is your renderer, per sang, hehe, on some WeakARM, compared to 
FontFusion? Alright, it's basically major type foundry Bitstream's project, 
they'd beat you in their sizes of (closely integrated, and handtooled) fonts, 
anyway. (wish someone could reverse-engineer this piece....)

> > > Given that a gzipped Courier type1 font definition is about 73 kb too
> > > its easy to see that it won't bloat at all....
> >
> > Let me see.... A zipped more-or-less complete "lower" Unicode (no CJKV)
> > Courier TrueType is about 330 KB, more-or-less complete zipped
> > Courier-like monospace TrueType CJKV is anything between 3.1 and 4.5 MB,
> > a lower estimate is for "wire" monowidth-stroke characters. All the
> > "bloating talk" was about these, no problem of special concern has ever
> > existed with basic Latin, plus Cyrillics, plus even
> > Arabic/Hebrew/Katakana/Hiragana.
>
> Hu? is a TT font that much bigger? My gv-suplied Courier font isnt that
> big; maybe its missing something? Its > 256 chars for sure... maybe +/- 500
> even...
We talk Titus-strong sets of 7000+ chars here, per sang, Reinoud. Can your 
"gv-supplied" (whatever it might mean; never heard of that foundry) Courier 
reproduce "Latin Letter Dental Click"? Or a "Feminine Ordinal Indicator" much 
sought of here recently? Links can now. And it's still well below CJK monster 
part.

> Would really love to have some more `exotic' t1 fonts to try out.... if
> anyone has some distributable fonts around of non latin chars please let me
> know! I've only had the chance to try out Cyrillic, Greek, Arabic, Hiragana
> and Katakana but no Chinese nor good Japanese fonts with proper vertical
> stuff offsets etc.
don't know anything like that except what goes as WordPerfect/TeX 
supplemental. In TT realm, try Titus. It's freely downloadable for us such 
linguists per sang, so go ahead, google this one out. It's professionally cut 
delta-hinted oldstyle roman Cyberbit (close to Dutch801) and being that per 
sang, it's excellently compatible with freely downloadable Bitstream Cyberbit 
CJK, to augment Titus to a very good entire Unicode approximation. As for 
vertical offsets/pseudohinting of CJK, it's too much of esoteric science even 
for such big type houses as Bitstream, so they just have just bought the 
entire CJK part from some respectable Yakudza publisher.

> > Oh yeahh.... lots of them.
> > 1. Before the Links authors agree to dump their own font renderer, and
> > replace it with your wunderbaby, how about coding some neat standalone
> > ttf2png convertor instead? It would be of HUGE help to the project, as
> > I'm exhausted of cutting italics one by one....
>
> Good point; hmm... t1topng would be easier :-D ... say one that renders
> chars and boxes them according to the fontmetrics?
....now we gettin' somewhere....
For a simplicity of what I have in mind, per sang, I'd use Titus TrueType 
below:
1) #tt2png -<some-option(s)> tituscbz.ttf
should produce a set of 7000+ (user-adjustable, framed) PNG files of sizes 
varying approximately in 60x100 pixels area (size depending on 
user-adjustable 4 corners of "x" base size, plus user-adjustable framewidths 
(for hinting/kerning/leading);
2) repeat the same with (user-adjustable, as another option) different/lower 
bitrate, as in bpp, to see a PNG size diminishes and outlines deteriorate.

> > 2. Talking about PDAs/mobile phones and other crappy displays. Back in
> > 80s, it took Damon Clark et al., at Apple Corp. couple years to cut an
> > excellent Espy family of fonts which, unlike most of todays' stuff, is
> > readable enough on screens of 72 dpi. Apple dumped the whole project for
> > some reason (see http://www.damonclark.com/inside/work/work_fonts.htm),
> > switching to Chicago (? or something) instead. So, Espy Serif and Espy
> > Sans became like "abandonware". Sort of. With Apple Corp., not at all.
> > But there are some free/sharewares cuts like (Nu, Neue) Epsy etc. I don't
> > have (ancient) Mac to play with those, but it seems to me that a Links
> > release for embedded devices could contain something like this, instead
> > of bloat Century of today. And, it would be fun to convert these to PNGs,
> > naturally, with your new shining ttf2png convertor.
>
> Neat... are those fonts available in t1 or ttf ? would like to check them
> out...
I don't have originals which were bitmapped on 4 or 5 pointsizes I believe, I 
have  only some stuffit-ed free/sharewares somewhere.  You'd better, per 
sang, google these out yourself, per nous. Or talk to some vintage Macaddict.

AU
--- Arbeit macht frei Softwaren, und unsere Rosie macht uns Hosie ---


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