Fairy tales for adults

Richard Lightman richard at nezumi.plus.com
Fri Feb 14 02:45:07 PST 2003

* James Drabb <JDrabb at tampabay.rr.com> [2003-02-14 10:05]:
> On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:22:37 +0000
> Richard Lightman <richard at nezumi.plus.com> wrote:
> > 
> > What is the test of truth used in religion?
> > 
> > 
> > Richard
> Billions of people around the world have a sense
> of a spirit or inner-self.  From the earliest written history,
> man has had a sense of spirit, and has searched for understanding.
> There is something in most people of the world that makes them
> have this "deeper" feeling of self, of being connected to
> something bigger, of having a spirit.  Billions of people around
> the world and since the bigging of man, have had an inner feeling
> of GOD or god(s) or even just an inner spirit.  *You* might not have
> or had this sense, but you cannot discredited it since it is somehting
> that has affected an uncountable number of humans. 

In short: "In your heart you know it is right". I have not tried
to discredit this, but if you raise the issue, other people "know
in their hearts" all sorts of things, and I doubt you would agree
with all of them.

> Yet, in all the
> history of science, not one scientist or experiment has been able
> to *disprove* that GOD or god(s) exist.  And according to your own
> words, this is the ultimate test of a theory. 

Failure to prove a theory wrong is only half of the matter. The other
half is that a theory privides useful predictions.

> The theory of a spirit,
> GOD or god(s) has withstood the test of time, and has not been disproven
> scientifically.

The theory that gods are fictional creations of humans has withstood
the test of time, and has not been disproven scientifically.

> This doesn't mean that *you* personally need to believe
> in GOD or an inner spirit.  But to totally deny it shows that you are
> not looking at it scientifically, but only applying your own personal
> beliefs. 

What exactly is 'it' that I totally denied. Please point to the
relevant e-mail.

> I don't understand how someone that calls themself a scientist
> can deny the fact that through out time, not one scientist has been able
> to disprove GOD, god(s) or spirit.  Can you give me *one* piece of
> scientific evidence that disproves that GOD or some form of god or inner
> spirit exists?  So far, your arguments have had as much merit as someone
> who is trying to convince someone else that santa clause is real.  Your
> arguments have not been based on *any* scientific proof, just on your
> own personal beliefs.  The burden is on you to disprove that GOD, or
> some form of god or even an inner spirit exists.  What *I* think most
> religious people use to test religious truth is that inner spirit, that
> sense of something more tangible inside themselves.  I only ask two
> things of science to prove/disprove to me. 1.  Can science disprove that
> GOD (or god(s)) or an inner spirit exists. 2.  Can science give me an
> explanation (with tangible scientific proof) of how the mass of the
> universe came into being?  Please don't ask me to believe by blind faith
> that all the mass that was released from the "big bang" just always
> existed.  That is not scientifically viable.
Why do you need to make up some beleifs and assign them to me?

In science, if you propose a theory, you publish it with predictions,
and predictions will be tested in an attempt to disprove it.
It is you GOD. Make some predictions that we can test.

I have answered this question before in detail. In summary:
no, not now and probably not in my lifetime. There are multiple
theories, but at present their predictions are beyond our technology
to test.

If things need to be created, who created your god?

If "in my heart I know it is true", is a valid test for truth, why are
you upset that I could belief the ideology you have assigned to me?

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