Fairy tales for adults

Wouter Van Hemel wouter at pair.com
Thu Feb 13 21:38:24 PST 2003

On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Steve Bougerolle wrote:

> So you would judge a religion's validity by what it says about people
> and not about a supreme being?

Ofcourse. One would be a fool to choose validity of something unknown and
not understood over something known.

With other words, a statement about something I [within reason] know is
more likely to be correct than something I just guess.

> [...]
> Unfortunately, most real religions don't have clear histories.

Which is a good explanation for their persistance.

> Unfortunately, lots of people insist on reading definite predictions
> into the bible.  This oversimplification is really annoying, but then
> you're doing it, too so at least I'm getting a nice balance of overly
> simplistic accusations from both sides :).

Do tell me, why if you can't claim any insight in god's mind, you think
that your interpretation is more right than that of others?

> > Another popular reason for christianity (told to me by a born-again)
> > "I know in my heart that it is true". Good for her, but I don't know
> > any such thing.
> Perhaps some day you will.

The day I believe in truth without sensual perceptions or logical
deduction thereof, I will report myself to the nearest nuthouse. ;)

> [...] know in our hearts that they are true as soon as we hear them (in much
> the same way, just for example, that you might not want to listen to a
> friend telling you he thinks you shouldn't drink & drive even though you
> know he is right).

But *that* statement has a logical cause and real result in *this*
dimension and world. I have friends that got killed in accidents.

I don't know which 'branch' of Christianity you consider yourself part of,
but many "truths" such as mariage, women who can't become priest, priests
who can't marry, on Sunday we have to rest (didn't it used to be Saturday
originally?), pouring 'blessed' water over babies is somehow 'good',
sinners end up in hell, except when they confess, in which case they are
forgiven, etcetera ad infinitum et ad nauseam --> these things have no
connection to our human world, they are 'inventions' without consequences.

I attach importance to certain basic values. All the rest, the
superstition and the politics (i.e. the religion and what people made up
around it), don't mean squat to me. I make my own rules, and it must be
working out just fine, since I'm still alive and well - even described as
quite moral and idealistic. Possibly having more fun than most of my
religious counter-parts, trapped in the cages they build for themselves.
Then again, this must be a moot point, because they (or I) wouldn't know.

> [...]
> central thrust or truth of their stories in the slightest.  We would
> judge anybody else's account of an event by much the same reasonable
> standard, why treat the bible any differently?

Why do you presume I treat the bible any differently?

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