Fabio Fracassi turiya at
Fri Jun 14 15:05:40 PDT 2002

On Friday 14 June 2002 21:20, Archaic wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 10:17:28PM +0200, Fabio Fracassi wrote:
> > > It didn't say it wasn't revenge. Hey, regardless of people's beliefs in
> > > religion, I hold that we are still animals with animalistic instinct.
> > > In the above situation, I would not only use my animalistic instinct to
> > > kill,
> >
> > Until here I agree.
> >
> > > but I would use my higher consiousness to justify it and defend
> > > it. I never claimed to be perfect! :)
> >
> > Why? Why justify it, why not stay with the second statement, and admit
> > that you would comit an injustice under that circumstances.
> We all justify EVERYTHING. I'm justifying my beliefs right now. Doesn't
> make them right, just different. It just all boils down to I believe
> this, you believe that. I don't know how to further elaborate without
> repeating myself.

No, thats all right, wouldn't the world be boring If we all agreed?

> > That makes you no(-t much) better than the attacker.
> I'm fine with the not much better, if that is what you will think of me.
> Because I know that my family (and society in general) is more important
> that what one thinks of me.

But the original attacker is also a part of the society.
But I agree with you on the thing about oppinion, I also think that what 
people think about somebody is overrated :)

> > An Eye for an Eye, that was the concept of justice 2000 years ago.
> Still is in many parts of the world. 

One more reason, to stand above the crowd. If everybody says, hey the next guy 
is no better than me the world will never improve. 

> Damn gov't screwed it up by killing the wrong people. :)

And who decides who are the right people?

> Vigilantism, yes. Defense no. If I was to hunt down the killer, that
> would be outlawed. Even in this country, there is a good chance of
> prison time for it. But killing the attacker at the time of attack is
> totally different. Higher concepts like revenge don't really enter into
> the mind at the time of extreme circumstances.

IMHO these things are very close together, but we already had that.

> > In the example you gave It would be "exagerated emergency defense" here
> > in Germany. You tecnically get a Murder in the second, but won't get
> > punished for it becase it  was in respose to an emergency.
> > I think this is an justice. Your "animal nature" gets taken into account,
> > but you don't get the reedemtion of beeing innocent.
> Not punished? Let's assume I am a citizen of Germany and this situation
> has occurred. Now, when I go to get a job, is that record of conviction
> going to show up? If it does, then I have been punished by being
> subjected to the scrutiny of the prospective employer. He will get his
> own concepts about me in his head. I would tend to think that if you
> were that employer, you probably wouldn't hire me. That's still
> punishment.

An normal Employer, will not get your police record.
What you did in your past is of no relevance to him, and even if it is, it is 
not his buisness. 


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