Fabio Fracassi turiya at
Fri Jun 14 10:47:09 PDT 2002

On Friday 14 June 2002 03:48, Robert Ian Smit wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 01:34:17PM -0700, Timothy Bauscher wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 10:09:32PM +0200, Robert Ian Smit wrote:

> Our world would not exist without faith, I am sure. The humility
> that is part of any believe in a higher being, was necessary to
> create human interaction, to take care of each other and make sacrifices.

hm, I disagree here, realy. As some others already noted, I don't need a 
higher being (or cause for that matter) to be good (however this is supposed 
to be defined). But I'd like to get a step further, I belive (Yes, this, too 
is an arguable and very personal belive) that the concept of an higher being 
is in most cases the easiest way to justify evil. Before you flame me for 
this, please read on. (I am oversimplifying my arguments here)
As Thimothy has already brought it up, lets have a look at the death penalty.
Thimothy states that he cannot see how a cristian can justify the death 
penalty, I find it rather simple: Even if our juristicion makes a mistake in 
commiting somebody to death, there is always the final istance of the 
judgement day where everything is put to the just end. If you carry the 
cristian legathy to an extreme, death is not even a penalty, but the (only) 
Its similar with war, of course nobody wants war (at least most wouldn't 
openly admit), but if it is said to be the only  way to archive a higher 
cause, what is the death of a few?

I belive that we would be much better of without the belive in any higher 
being. I for my part belive, that EVERY Human is a higher (ok, the 
comperative form isnt realy applicable any more) being.
That implies several things for me. I have the right to do WHATEVER I please. 
BUT: EVERYBODY ELSE has the exact same right. On the other hand NOBODY has 
the right to end someone elses life.

> I am fascinated not so much by the religious as by our world where
> such diversity of believes and ideas is possible. The
> incomprehensible beauty that is in the irrelevance of ones strongest
> believes. Yet we fight so hard for them. As long as people use words
> in that fight, it surely is a nice way to pass time.

Absolutely, I mean I would never say that I already found the one and only 
Truth (I am pretty sure that such a thing doesn't even exist.)
And while that is true, every conversation can teach me something interessting 
or important. 
And to throw in another quote:

"I might disagree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your 
right to say it." -- Voltaire

> Agreed. If we live long enough, I think we will find a final theory.
> I am sceptic whether that theory will be understood by many and will
> ever be considered to be common sense.

I'm sceptic that such a thing exists. 
BTW. There was an interesting Article on Slashdot a while ago, which had a 
theory about the complexity of such a theory, and if the human mind is 
complex enough to comprehend it.


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