Robert Ian Smit robian at
Thu Jun 13 18:48:08 PDT 2002

On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 01:34:17PM -0700, Timothy Bauscher wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 10:09:32PM +0200, Robert Ian Smit wrote:
> > You say "God CREATED man".
> > I would say "Man created God".
> I can understand how you would come to that conclusion.
> I have always been fascinated by athiests (i will assume
> you are an athiest), just as many of them are fascinated
> by the religous.
> I determined, in my head, that God existed when i was 13.
> But, until recently, i didn't really _believe_ in Him.
> Faith is something which cannot be explained. It is neither
> a feeling nor a thought, yet it can make a person capable
> of doing the impossible.

Our world would not exist without faith, I am sure. The humility
that is part of any believe in a higher being, was necessary to
create human interaction, to take care of each other and make sacrifices.

The state of human existence has progressed so far that we could do
without a god, but belief is in our genes and will never go

I am fascinated not so much by the religious as by our world where
such diversity of believes and ideas is possible. The
incomprehensible beauty that is in the irrelevance of ones strongest
believes. Yet we fight so hard for them. As long as people use words
in that fight, it surely is a nice way to pass time.

> "Science without religion is lame, religion
> without science is blind."
>     -- Albert Einstein
> (quoted out of context, but nevertheless, he said it)
> > There are very strong reasons why God exists. That
> > being said, I have never seen proof.
> Proove to me that numbers exist. Proove to me that
> time exists, or that the moon exists, or that i
> exist. Just because you can see something, or touch
> it, or feel it, doesn't mean it exists. It means that
> you perceive it as existing.

True, but there is one big difference. When you ask me to prove the
moon, my reaction is twofold: 
1 - Whoops, that is quite a task. Can I ask for assistance?
2 - Why prove the moon? We both have a concept of what the moon is
and we both know "it is there".

Proving a god is very different. I have no concept of God and I
can't assume He is there. If someone conjures doubt to the existence
of the moon, I will not respond ;)

> You create a universe by perceiving it. Nothing can
> truly be proven. All that one can do is convince others
> to perceive the universe the way they do. That, is
> what humans call proof.

Agreed. If we live long enough, I think we will find a final theory.
I am sceptic whether that theory will be understood by many and will
ever be considered to be common sense. 

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